Episode 17
Living Intentionally: The Biblical Blueprint for Fulfilling Your Purpose
This podcast episode delves into the profound concept of destiny, emphasizing that every individual has a unique purpose intricately woven into the fabric of creation. Glenn Blakeney engages with Dr. Michael Brodeur, who shares his journey from a tumultuous upbringing to becoming a seasoned pastor and coach, advocating for the empowerment of believers to discover and fulfill their God-given callings. The conversation underscores the importance of the church functioning as a "destiny incubator," where every member is equipped to contribute meaningfully to the body of Christ. By examining biblical precedents, they highlight the dual nature of destiny—individual and communal—and the necessity for leaders to cultivate environments that foster growth and development. As the episode unfolds, listeners are invited to reflect on their own destinies and the role they play in the larger narrative of faith and service.
The conversation between Glenn Blakeney and Dr. Michael Brodeur explores the profound theme of destiny within the Christian faith, emphasizing its biblical roots and practical applications for believers today. Dr. Brodeur shares his compelling life story, illustrating how his journey reflects the transformative power of discovering one's purpose. The episode begins with a discussion of Genesis, where God’s mandate for humanity sets the stage for an understanding of destiny as a divinely ordained path each person is called to follow. This foundational perspective challenges listeners to consider not only their individual destinies but also how these destinies intersect within the broader context of the Church.
As the dialogue progresses, the importance of equipping church members to understand and pursue their destinies takes center stage. Dr. Brodeur critiques the traditional church model that often leaves many believers feeling sidelined and unempowered. He argues for a shift towards a more inclusive approach that recognizes the priesthood of all believers, where each person is encouraged to actively engage in ministry. This shift is framed as essential for the health and vitality of the Church, as it allows for a fuller manifestation of the body of Christ. The conversation prompts listeners to reflect on how they can contribute to fostering such an environment in their own communities.
Dr. Brodeur introduces practical tools and frameworks designed to assist individuals in their journey of discovering their God-given purposes. He discusses the Journey Guide, a resource that helps users assess their spiritual gifts, life experiences, and passions, connecting these elements to their destiny. The episode concludes with a powerful call to action, encouraging both leaders and congregants to embrace their roles in facilitating a culture of empowerment and growth. By doing so, they can collectively fulfill the call to be fruitful, multiply, and impact the world around them, embodying the essence of their faith in tangible and transformative ways.
Takeaways:
- The importance of understanding individual destinies as part of a greater collective purpose is essential for fulfilling God's plan.
- Leaders should focus on equipping their congregants, enabling each member to discover their unique calling and contributions.
- The church must transition from a spectator model to one that emphasizes active participation and empowerment for all members.
- Destiny is not solely about individual achievement but about collective growth and collaboration within the body of Christ.
- Transitioning from pastoral care to apostolic empowerment requires a shift in church dynamics and leadership styles.
- Each believer has a unique role in the body of Christ, which is crucial for the church's overall health and function.
Links referenced in this episode:
Companies mentioned in this episode:
- Kingdom Reformation
- Jesus Culture
- Vineyard
- Bethel
- Catch the Fire
- Destiny Finder
Transcript
Foreign hey there everybody.
Glenn Blakeney:Glenn Blakeney here and welcome to our time of training and teaching.
Glenn Blakeney:My guest is the amazing Dr.
Glenn Blakeney:Michael Brodier, all the way from California and we're going to be talking all about destiny, the importance of fulfilling your destiny.
Glenn Blakeney:And that's a very relevant topic.
Glenn Blakeney:Living by design, not by default.
Glenn Blakeney:You know, living out what God has called you to do.
Glenn Blakeney:So thanks again guys for joining us.
Glenn Blakeney:So we're going to just start off just giving you a quick overview of where we're headed and what's available for you to just continue on this journey.
Glenn Blakeney:Because I know after we hear from Dr.
Glenn Blakeney:Michael Brodere that you're going to be greatly encouraged and also interested, I think, on on being more intentional on your pursuit of the will of God and His purpose for your life.
Glenn Blakeney:So first of all, I just want to say if you are not yet a subscriber to the Kingdom Reformation community, please do so.
Glenn Blakeney:We have a free subscription and that gives you opportunity to access all of our public posts and there's quite a few, so there's a lot of good content there.
Glenn Blakeney:Just go to kingdomreformation.org as you see on the screen those or listening by podcast, Kingdom reformation.org and you can sign up.
Glenn Blakeney:If you would like to even have access to even more content and resources, then you can sign up for our monthly subscription, $25 a month or $175 per year and gives you access to monthly live sessions as well as digital products, lots of really cool stuff, our posts and so on.
Glenn Blakeney:So yeah, feel free to do that.
Glenn Blakeney:And if you are a leader of leaders and you have individuals that you would like to bring on the lives and access this content, then you can sign up for our leader of leaders plan.
Glenn Blakeney:That's $500 a year and gives you up to 10 people who can join your team and be part of that as well.
Glenn Blakeney:Plus you get even more than on the other plan.
Glenn Blakeney:So just head over guys to kingdomreformation.org subscribe today and I know that you will be blessed by that.
Glenn Blakeney:Also today at the end of our time of sharing with Dr.
Glenn Blakeney:Michael, you will have the opportunity to ask some questions so you can shoot that through on the comments as well.
Glenn Blakeney:That'll be a great opportunity as well.
Glenn Blakeney:And if you are not yet a person who watches Kingdom Community tv, I want to encourage you to do that.
Glenn Blakeney:Just head over to kingdomcommunity TV and watch all of our content absolutely free of charge.
Glenn Blakeney:So thank you guys for joining us.
Glenn Blakeney:Well, as I mentioned today, Our guest is Dr.
Glenn Blakeney:Michael Broder, and he is a Christian leader.
Glenn Blakeney:Destiny Finder PASTORS COACH he's been in ministry for years.
Glenn Blakeney:San Francisco, pioneered and pastored one of the largest churches in San Francisco and has done a lot of very innovative ministry, been connected with the Vineyard movement with Bethel, currently on staff at Jesus Culture.
Glenn Blakeney:And I know there's other things that you do as well, Michael, but we're so glad to have you with us.
Glenn Blakeney:And today, as you share about this area, this real area of expertise, you're passionate about it.
Glenn Blakeney:Destiny, we know it's going to be a blessing to everyone, but do feel free before we jump into the teaching portion to just share a little bit about yourself, something maybe that we don't know what some of your background that will specifically be even relevant to, to what we're going to be talking about today.
Glenn Blakeney:And welcome.
Michael Brodeur:Well, it's so good to be with you.
Michael Brodeur:I'm so excited to have a chance to speak also to all of you that are on the call today.
Michael Brodeur:So welcome.
Michael Brodeur:Yeah.
Michael Brodeur:My name is Michael Brodeur, and I actually was raised in San Francisco.
Michael Brodeur:My parents were hippies, so they moved Francisco to escape traditional morality and Catholicism.
Michael Brodeur:And my dad was an artist, my mom was an artist.
Michael Brodeur:And they separated when I was young.
Michael Brodeur:They kind of had different directions.
Michael Brodeur:My dad was more of a beatnik bohemian.
Michael Brodeur: My mom got swept up in the: Michael Brodeur:I was involved in drug, sex and rock and roll from a very early age.
Michael Brodeur:I never really heard about Jesus at all.
Michael Brodeur:In fact, mom was the leader of one of the big occult bookstores in San Francisco.
Michael Brodeur:And so when I first started hearing about Jesus was during the Jesus Revolution period.
Michael Brodeur:And really it was actually I started hitchhiking around the nation and covered about 30,000 miles.
Michael Brodeur:And that's when I started meeting believers.
Michael Brodeur:One particular day, six rides in a row with believers.
Michael Brodeur:And when I got out of the car, I just said, God, surely you don't want me to become a Christian.
Michael Brodeur:And then a car pulled up and this amazing woman of God who became my spiritual mom picked me up and we she witnessed to me for 25 miles and then asked me if I wanted to pray.
Michael Brodeur:And my life began to change at that moment.
Michael Brodeur:I was 18 years old, and that was literally 50 years ago.
Michael Brodeur: So in: Michael Brodeur:So anyway, that's a little bit of my story.
Michael Brodeur:I went into ministry pretty quickly after that.
Michael Brodeur:Heard about a group that was planning a church in San Francisco that was my hometown.
Michael Brodeur: went back to San Francisco in: Michael Brodeur:And I was there for 33 years as a church planter, ultimately working with the Vineyard movement, was involved in various seasons of revival and outreach in the city.
Michael Brodeur: And ultimately in: Michael Brodeur:But by that time I had met my wife, Diane.
Michael Brodeur:We were married, have seven children, and now we have seven grandchildren as well.
Michael Brodeur:And so it's been an amazing journey.
Michael Brodeur:You know, it's.
Michael Brodeur:It's been wonderful, but challenging in so many ways.
Michael Brodeur:But God has been with us and we're so happy to be where we are now.
Michael Brodeur:44 years of marriage and still serving Jesus, actually, in addition to my time at Jesus Culture, which is about half time, I work with a global ministry called Catch the Fire.
Michael Brodeur:And they were most famous for the outpouring of the Holy Spirit in the Toronto days 30 years ago.
Michael Brodeur:And they have about 300 churches.
Michael Brodeur:And I'm helping to coach those churches.
Michael Brodeur:So it's wonderful to be with you.
Michael Brodeur:Great, great.
Glenn Blakeney:Thank you.
Glenn Blakeney:Yeah, thank you so much.
Glenn Blakeney:So the transition, obviously, from pastoring into pastor's coach, you know, an apostolic role, equipping, training, how did that happen?
Glenn Blakeney:What was that?
Michael Brodeur:That was a.
Michael Brodeur:That was a big step for us because, you know, I was married to San Francisco.
Michael Brodeur:I thought I'd never leave the city.
Michael Brodeur:You know, our church had.
Michael Brodeur:Had hit a pretty big moment and, you know, we had just tremendous revival.
Michael Brodeur:Power of God was moving, and we had planted about 14 churches out of our church.
Michael Brodeur:I was involved in a lot of different ministry, but we had also gone through some pretty serious spiritual warfare.
Michael Brodeur:There was quite a bit of trauma that kind of hit us pretty hard.
Michael Brodeur:And it was evident that, you know, we need to make a change.
Michael Brodeur:A few of my kids were already going up to the Bethel School of Supernatural Ministry.
Michael Brodeur:We went up for a.
Michael Brodeur:Just a short sabbatical, like a three month sabbatical.
Michael Brodeur:And I had a prophetic dream.
Michael Brodeur:It was clear that God was moving us out of San Francisco.
Michael Brodeur:So I began to teach at the school there.
Michael Brodeur:And it was during that time that the Lord spoke to us to begin to coach pastors.
Michael Brodeur:I had already been in denominational leadership in the Vineyard movement, so I was over about 35 churches for about 10 years.
Michael Brodeur:But.
Michael Brodeur:But this was a new step, you know, stepping into something that was uniquely the call of God on my life, my wife's life.
Michael Brodeur:And so it's just a wonderful transition, but challenging in so many ways.
Michael Brodeur:And now it's like, you know, I'm coaching churches around the world but also working with several different movements.
Michael Brodeur:A couple of movements out of Brazil.
Michael Brodeur:I'm working with Jesus culture as a movement.
Michael Brodeur:I'm working with Catch the Fire.
Michael Brodeur:So it's pretty exciting to be in touch with a number of amazing things that God is doing in different streams around the world.
Michael Brodeur:So I'm blessed.
Glenn Blakeney:Yeah, that is, that is very unique.
Glenn Blakeney:Not a lot of people do that.
Glenn Blakeney:So that's awesome.
Glenn Blakeney:Okay, so today we're talking about destiny.
Michael Brodeur:Yes.
Glenn Blakeney:And you know, sometimes destiny can.
Glenn Blakeney:It gets a better app in the sense of it can become cliche.
Glenn Blakeney:Yes, your destiny, what's your purpose, and so on.
Glenn Blakeney:But let's just talk for a moment, Michael, if you would please, on kind of the biblical precedent for this.
Glenn Blakeney:I mean, sometimes I think my concern is that our focus is primarily on the individualistic kind of manifestation or expression, I guess is a better word of Christianity.
Glenn Blakeney:You know, whereas we're all part obviously of the body of Christ.
Glenn Blakeney:Paul uses the analogy of anatomy.
Glenn Blakeney:Being a member of the body.
Glenn Blakeney:Yes.
Glenn Blakeney:So how does that work?
Glenn Blakeney:You know, just speak into that, please.
Michael Brodeur:Well, it is, it is a both and, and not an either or.
Michael Brodeur:You know, we have this situation where God himself has ordained that we would be members of him, of members of Christ, but we would also be members of one another.
Michael Brodeur:And this idea that we are part of one body, but the real the, the fullness of him who fills all in all depends on every single member discovering their unique place of participation in the body.
Michael Brodeur:And this is interesting because, you know, the scripture tells us in several places that we are each individually gifted in different ways.
Michael Brodeur:If you look at your history, you look at your gift mix, you look at your passions, you look at that sense of God given dream that you have.
Michael Brodeur:Every one of us is unique and individual.
Michael Brodeur:But we were never ordained to operate individually.
Michael Brodeur:Primarily, we're called to operate as one in Christ.
Michael Brodeur:And so both are true simultaneously.
Michael Brodeur:That yes, you have a destiny.
Michael Brodeur:Yes, you have a calling.
Michael Brodeur:Yes, we are called to walk together in divine alignment so that we can actually fulfill God's purpose on the earth.
Michael Brodeur:So it's amazing.
Glenn Blakeney:Okay, thank you.
Glenn Blakeney:Yeah, well said.
Glenn Blakeney:So let's talk a little bit about what the Lord has been showing you and teaching you.
Glenn Blakeney:And I want to just share with those who are watching this video, whether you're on the live right now or watching the replay or on the podcast.
Glenn Blakeney:When you head over to KingdomReformation.org and become a subscriber, we will send you the notes for this session too as well, guys.
Glenn Blakeney:So yeah, let's let's dive in, Michael, and just share what's on your heart.
Glenn Blakeney:And then at the end, we're going to have a Q A time as well.
Michael Brodeur:Sounds good.
Michael Brodeur:Well, here's where I like to start, is that, you know, I was actually.
Michael Brodeur:I came to the Lord at the end of what was called the Jesus movement revolution.
Michael Brodeur:In that time, there was a strong need for discipleship.
Michael Brodeur:We needed to make disciples because everybody had come out of a more of a hippie background at that time in the.
Michael Brodeur:In the mid-70s.
Michael Brodeur:And when I was raised up in that environment, I needed it.
Michael Brodeur:Now, some people got hurt in that movement and so forth.
Michael Brodeur:But as I came out of that time and I met John Wimber and Lonnie Fritz as we started working with the Vineyard movement, they were not as into discipleship, but I still felt this incredible need to see people raised up according to God's divine design in their life.
Michael Brodeur:And so what I did was, you know, I was fasting and praying, and the Lord spoke to me about this issue of destiny and that this was going to be one of the key ways in which God would motivate people to pursue him in this coming season.
Michael Brodeur:You know, in the Gen X, millennial and Gen Z period, that a.
Michael Brodeur:A lot of the normal historical motivations for ministry had kind of fallen away.
Michael Brodeur:Duty was no longer a good word.
Michael Brodeur:Okay, but we felt like, no, we need to understand how to motivate people to pursue Jesus with all their heart.
Michael Brodeur:And God began to bring this message of destiny to me.
Michael Brodeur:And really where it's rooted is in the very first chapter of the Bible.
Michael Brodeur:If you go back to Genesis, chapter 1, verse 26, 27, 28, it says that God made man in his image, male and female.
Michael Brodeur:He created them, and then he gave them a mandate.
Michael Brodeur:It was the original mandate of creation.
Michael Brodeur:And he said to them, be fruitful, multiply, fill the earth, subdue it, and have dominion.
Michael Brodeur:In other words, the first words that we have that God spoke to Adam and Eve were words of destiny.
Michael Brodeur:You're called to fulfill certain things that God has ordained.
Michael Brodeur:Now, certainly that didn't happen apart from relationship.
Michael Brodeur:In other words, God walked with them in the cool of the day.
Michael Brodeur:There was deep, intimate fellowship between the Lord and his first couple that he created.
Michael Brodeur:But he didn't say that.
Michael Brodeur:He didn't say, oh, come and let's spend time together.
Michael Brodeur:He said, come, because I have a job for you.
Michael Brodeur:Okay.
Michael Brodeur:So God began this creation process with a word of destiny.
Michael Brodeur:Let's look at each of those really quickly.
Michael Brodeur:So be fruitful is God wants us to be abundant in everything we do.
Michael Brodeur:We plant one seed, we harvest a hundred seeds, we build a house.
Michael Brodeur:Let it be the most excellent house.
Michael Brodeur:You know that God wants us to be able to be prosperous in all that we're doing.
Michael Brodeur:The second thing he said is to be fruitful and multiply.
Michael Brodeur:My wife and I took that pretty seriously.
Michael Brodeur:We have seven kids.
Michael Brodeur:But really, he's talking about multiplication as giving birth to the next generation, the next generation.
Michael Brodeur:And that leads us to the third point, which is fill the Earth.
Michael Brodeur:Because there's no way in the world that two people who came together could actually produce enough humans to fill the earth, except through generational succession.
Michael Brodeur:So each of these three things be fruitful, multiply, fill the earth, all had an incredible word of intentionality.
Michael Brodeur:Now, the fourth issue, he says, is to subdue the Earth.
Michael Brodeur:And this implies something that I think we need to pay attention to, which is there's going to be challenges, there's going to be difficulty, there's going to be circumstantial issues.
Michael Brodeur:Eventually, as we'll find out, there was warfare, and the enemy came against God's purposes and plans.
Michael Brodeur:So subduing requires a degree of overcoming a degree of challenge that gets subdued, okay?
Michael Brodeur:And then the final thing is step into a place of dominion.
Michael Brodeur:And I believe that this is the call for all of humanity that we were called to actually rule the Earth, that the scripture says later on that we're called to be kings and priests unto our God.
Michael Brodeur:So the whole issue of destiny is woven into the very fabric of creation.
Michael Brodeur:But then, you know what happened?
Michael Brodeur:There was a tremendous failure on the part of those two first human beings.
Michael Brodeur:They sinned against the Lord.
Michael Brodeur:They obeyed the seduction of the enemy.
Michael Brodeur:They ate fruit of the knowledge of good and evil.
Michael Brodeur:And a great curse was released on the Earth.
Michael Brodeur:And as a result of that curse, there's been this process of the human.
Michael Brodeur:Of the human story where wars and rumors of wars.
Michael Brodeur:There's been, you know, greed and poverty.
Michael Brodeur:There's been pain and disease, all of those things where the brokenness of humanity came to light as a result of our sin.
Michael Brodeur:But God was not freaked out.
Michael Brodeur:You know, God put in motion a redemptive plan.
Michael Brodeur:And that redemptive plan really began with a guy named Abraham and Sarah.
Michael Brodeur:And he actually spoke a destiny over them at the very beginning.
Michael Brodeur:When he called them out of Ur, of the Chaldees, out of Haran, into the.
Michael Brodeur:Into the Canaan land, he said to them, you're going to have a child.
Michael Brodeur:And that child is going to bless all the nations.
Michael Brodeur:So he called Abraham to a destiny.
Michael Brodeur:And you know the story.
Michael Brodeur:There was a lot of resistance, a lot of difficulty.
Michael Brodeur:But ultimately Abraham had a son, Isaac.
Michael Brodeur:And so we see this process, look, and then Isaac gave birth to the patriarchs, to Joseph.
Michael Brodeur:They were 400 years in Egypt and then they come forth under the leadership of Moses.
Michael Brodeur:And Moses had a destiny to free the people, to deliver the people.
Michael Brodeur:We see destiny woven into the entire redemptive plan of God, including, you know, Joshua and then Samuel, Samuel and then ultimately David and the prophets, all foretelling a time when God himself would become flesh and dwell among us.
Michael Brodeur:And then Jesus comes in the fullness of time, the scripture says he comes.
Michael Brodeur:And when Jesus came, he did so to restore all of humanity to God's original mandate, to God's original purpose.
Michael Brodeur:And so Jesus healed the sick, he cast out devils, he did incredible miracles, he preached incredible truth.
Michael Brodeur:But ultimately the greatest act he did was when he gave his life on the cross, when he who knew no sin became sin on our behalf so that we might become the righteousness of God in him.
Michael Brodeur:And you know the story, he gave his life three days later.
Michael Brodeur:He rose from the death, victorious over sin and the devil.
Michael Brodeur:And he rose, ultimately appeared for 40 days and then he ascended into heaven.
Michael Brodeur:Now before he ascended though, he said something very interesting.
Michael Brodeur:He said, you, all authority has been given to me in heaven and on earth.
Michael Brodeur:Go therefore and make disciples.
Michael Brodeur:In other words, go therefore and take all that I've taught you and embed it in the next generation so that each person can discover their personal God given calling.
Michael Brodeur:That calling that was given in creation, disrupted by sin, restored in Christ.
Michael Brodeur:And now here we are, we are in the process of seeing the body of Christ raised up into the fullness, representing Jesus fully on the earth.
Michael Brodeur:As every individual discovers their personal calling and we bring those callings together in humility so that we can manifest the fullness of Christ in the earth.
Michael Brodeur:So that's kind of the intro to this whole understanding.
Michael Brodeur:I don't know if you have any thoughts we, as we transition, but I'm happy to go a little further in this.
Glenn Blakeney:Yes, please.
Glenn Blakeney:So.
Glenn Blakeney:No, no, no, that's, that's great because I think it's really significant to give that theological framework there in terms of, of understanding destiny, as you said right from the very beginning.
Glenn Blakeney:And that's a powerful thing.
Glenn Blakeney:This isn't some, you know, new idea, novel idea in the 21st century or you know, or some type of self help promotion kind of thing.
Glenn Blakeney:Oh, yes, this is all about how God created us.
Michael Brodeur:No, we need to understand that this is really woven into the fabric of our identity.
Michael Brodeur:And that's why, if you think about it, you know, those people who have not come to Christ and not fully yielded their life, surrendered their life to Jesus, are still striving for identity.
Michael Brodeur:Sometimes we call it the orphan spirit, where they're being driven by these impulses to try to make a name for themselves or try to gain as much material wealth as they can, or have as much pleasure as they can to somehow scratch that itch.
Michael Brodeur:But the real itch inside is not an itch for pleasure.
Michael Brodeur:It's not an itch for money and wealth.
Michael Brodeur:It's not even an itch for significance in the human sense.
Michael Brodeur:What it is, is, it's, it's.
Michael Brodeur:It's a desire to fulfill that original intention that was imprinted upon us in creation.
Michael Brodeur:Okay?
Michael Brodeur:And so when Jesus, he gave two commandments at the end of his life, before he ascended into heaven.
Michael Brodeur:One is that he said, go and make disciples, which I just shared.
Michael Brodeur:The other one is that he said, wait in Jerusalem till you receive power.
Michael Brodeur:See, there was a promise that had been brought by the different prophets through Jeremiah, through, you know, the different ones.
Michael Brodeur:Joel is another one where he said, I will write my laws on your heart.
Michael Brodeur:I will empower you from the inside out.
Michael Brodeur:I will raise you up so that you can fulfill the purpose that God had ordained for creation from the beginning.
Michael Brodeur:We're going to restore that now, but we're going to restore it in a way that will even be better than it was before it was ever broken.
Michael Brodeur:That ultimately the Spirit of the living God will come and indwell every believer as we are born again, as our sins are forgiven, as we are brought into relationship with God.
Michael Brodeur:And then we look at, let's say, Ephesians 1, where it talks about this incredible deposit of being in Christ and Christ in you, the hope of glory.
Michael Brodeur:And then he goes into talking about, in chapter two, this amazing verse, he said that by grace we're saved through faith.
Michael Brodeur:It's not of yourself.
Michael Brodeur:It's a gift of God, not of works, lest any man should boast.
Michael Brodeur:That's chapter 2, verses 8 and 9.
Michael Brodeur:But then he goes into verse 10, and verse 10 says this.
Michael Brodeur:For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works which God before ordained that we should walk in them.
Michael Brodeur:Now think about that statement.
Michael Brodeur:We are being recreated in Christ Jesus for good works.
Michael Brodeur:What kind of good works is he talking about?
Michael Brodeur:Well, feeding the poor or Blessing people or praying for the sick.
Michael Brodeur:Those are the good works.
Michael Brodeur:But I believe he's talking about not just the generic good works that every believer is supposed to do.
Michael Brodeur:I think he's talking about specific good works.
Michael Brodeur:And why do I say that?
Michael Brodeur:It's because of that final verse, the final phrase, where he says, which God ordained beforehand that we should walk in them?
Michael Brodeur:So God has ordained certain things for you to accomplish in this life in Christ Jesus that no one else can do in quite the same way.
Michael Brodeur:And that's really what this destiny question is all about.
Michael Brodeur:And that's why we created this thing called destinyfinder.com.
Michael Brodeur:so another thought, Glenn.
Glenn Blakeney:Yeah, no, that's great, Michael.
Glenn Blakeney:Thank you.
Glenn Blakeney:And I love what you just mentioned.
Glenn Blakeney:That verse, Ephesians 2:10, the works that God ordained, you know, this prescribed works, they're written out in advance.
Glenn Blakeney:We know Psalms 139 talks about that, you know, every day of our life.
Glenn Blakeney:God planned it, he wrote it out in advance, and so on.
Glenn Blakeney:So that's.
Glenn Blakeney:That's very significant.
Glenn Blakeney:Just one question here, Michael, regarding, you know, my destiny, my purpose.
Glenn Blakeney:Now I'm shifting this now for those who are leaders, those who are pastors, or you're in the place where you're equipping, empowering others to, you know, step into their destiny.
Glenn Blakeney:So how, how significant, how important is it to do that?
Glenn Blakeney:So in other words, yeah, there are churches, obviously, and this could translate into marketplace as well.
Glenn Blakeney:But where people come, they sit there on a Sunday, they listen to a great preacher, but they're not being empowered to step into their destiny.
Glenn Blakeney:What type of impact does that have on the body of Christ, the church, the world?
Glenn Blakeney:Not stepping into that.
Michael Brodeur:It's huge.
Michael Brodeur:It's huge.
Michael Brodeur:And here's something I think we need to Remember is about 518 years ago or something, there was what we call the Protestant Reformation.
Michael Brodeur:A man named Martin Luther was looking.
Michael Brodeur:He was a Catholic priest.
Michael Brodeur:He looked at all the failures of the Catholic world, and he actually wrote a series of recommendations.
Michael Brodeur:You know, and those recommendations, actually the three primary truths that could sort of rose to the surface were three things that have been neglected for a thousand years.
Michael Brodeur:And those three things were, first of all, salvation by faith alone.
Michael Brodeur:The second one that was neglected was this issue of the authority of the Word of God.
Michael Brodeur:They had transferred that authority over to the thinking of priests and popes, and everything had gotten messed up.
Michael Brodeur:But the third one, see, those first two, they did a pretty good job of rectifying.
Michael Brodeur:But the third one, actually, they didn't really do Very well.
Michael Brodeur:The third truth that they rediscovered in the Protestant Reformation was the priesthood of every believer.
Michael Brodeur:See, when Jesus was here, he empowered people for ministry.
Michael Brodeur:When we look at the Book of Acts, everybody was empowered for ministry.
Michael Brodeur:Every single person had us had a role to play in the purposes of God.
Michael Brodeur:But as the church evolved over the centuries, there became this separation between priesthood and laity.
Michael Brodeur:And this was never intended in the purposes of God.
Michael Brodeur:The problem was when Martin Luther actually instituted, instituted the 95 theses and began to rebel in a sense against the Catholic Church.
Michael Brodeur:He had this truth about the priesthood of every believer, but they never changed the way they did church.
Michael Brodeur:So prior to the Reformation, 10 people did all the ministry on the stage and everybody else sat as spectators and consumers.
Michael Brodeur:And then after the Protestant Reformation, guess what?
Michael Brodeur:They still had 10 people on the stage doing the ministry and everybody else sat as consumers and spectators.
Michael Brodeur:In other words, we did not unlock the true meaning of the priesthood of every believer.
Michael Brodeur:And I believe that part of the key to doing this is helping each person understand that they are unique in Christ.
Michael Brodeur:Not just their fingerprints, not just their iris pattern, not just their voice print, but literally everything about them, their history, their DNA, even the tragic things that might have happened to them when they were growing up.
Michael Brodeur:God has been at work.
Michael Brodeur:See, God knows you before you ever knew Him.
Michael Brodeur:At work in your life, at every step and stage, he's the one.
Michael Brodeur:Jesus said, no man can come to the the Father but by, by me.
Michael Brodeur:But he also said no man could come to the to me unless my Father draw him.
Michael Brodeur:So God has been at work in your life through all these moments to bring you ultimately to Jesus Christ.
Michael Brodeur:And now that you're in Jesus Christ, do you think he's just going to make you rank and file like one of the sheep in a thousand sheep?
Michael Brodeur:No, he's.
Michael Brodeur:He's got a unique purpose for you.
Michael Brodeur:And this is really something.
Michael Brodeur:When we go back to that verse in Ephesians 2:10, see, one of the questions that raises is a little complex question.
Michael Brodeur:Well, does God predetermine everything?
Michael Brodeur:You know, and there's this branch of Christianity called Calvinism where they believe that God is so sovereign that he ordains every single step, every single issue.
Michael Brodeur:And then there's another group of Christians on the other end of the spectrum that would say, no.
Michael Brodeur:God ordained certain things, but he gives a lot of power of choice to human being.
Michael Brodeur:And so there's been this battle for, gosh, hundreds of years between these two camps of Christianity.
Michael Brodeur:But I think the problem is not One or the other.
Michael Brodeur:Here's how I look at it.
Michael Brodeur:When I think about God ordaining your destiny, I think of it like this.
Michael Brodeur:I believe that God exists outside of time in a place called eternity.
Michael Brodeur:So God lives outside of time, but he's interacting with all time at the same time in his time.
Michael Brodeur:And so he's able to both give you the power of choice as a person, as somebody created in his image, but he also is working with you in the midst of those choices that you're making to work all things ultimately together for good according to his purposes.
Michael Brodeur:It says in, in Ephesians 1:11 that he works all things according to the counsel of his own will.
Michael Brodeur:And so God is at work with you in the midst of.
Michael Brodeur:He has an ordained outcome that he's.
Michael Brodeur:That he's purposed for you.
Michael Brodeur:He has a design that he's.
Michael Brodeur:That he's worked in your life, but he's working that with you in the midst of real time choices.
Michael Brodeur:Okay, let me give you an example of this.
Michael Brodeur:It's a like, think of a keyboard.
Michael Brodeur:Every worship team has one.
Michael Brodeur:A keyboard with a hundred keys.
Michael Brodeur:And you have the black notes and you have the white notes.
Michael Brodeur:Well, God is a master pianist.
Michael Brodeur:And he comes and sits down at the keyboard and he cracks his fingers and he has a hundred fingers on each hand, okay?
Michael Brodeur:So he's able to sit down and start playing.
Michael Brodeur:And he's able to play the low notes, you know, what happened 100 years ago.
Michael Brodeur:He's able to play the high notes.
Michael Brodeur:What happens 100 years from now at the same moment, because he's that big and he's that interactive.
Michael Brodeur:And so if, if, you know, we're stuck in the chromatic.
Michael Brodeur:Chromatic scale.
Michael Brodeur:God is not bound by time.
Michael Brodeur:So he's able, as, as Glenn said, Pastor Glenn said about, you know, Psalm 139, he's able to look at every single choice you've made, and he's able to write in his book beforehand that they happened.
Michael Brodeur:But he's also able to work with you in the midst of your choices, and he's able to rewrite the bad notes that you play and ultimately bring you into his purposes.
Michael Brodeur:Okay, so if we look at that, then if God has a picture of his church where every single believer is a minister, every single believer is a world changer, but every one of us has a slightly different role in the symphony.
Michael Brodeur:We're playing a slightly different instrument.
Michael Brodeur:We're playing a slightly different.
Michael Brodeur:Okay, God weaves that all together and brings about the fullness of him who fills all in all the body of Christ representing Jesus fully.
Michael Brodeur:And that's why it's so essential.
Michael Brodeur:Back to your question, Glenn.
Michael Brodeur:That's why it's so essential that every leader help every follower to discover who they are in Christ and to begin to take the developmental steps to fulfill that purpose.
Michael Brodeur:Okay, yeah.
Michael Brodeur:The way I put it is like this.
Michael Brodeur:And then I'll turn it back to you for a moment.
Michael Brodeur:I believe the highest purpose of every church and any church is to be a destiny incubator for every member.
Glenn Blakeney:Wow.
Glenn Blakeney:Wow, that's powerful.
Glenn Blakeney:So let's continue in that vein, please, Michael.
Glenn Blakeney:So Ephesians 4, 11 talks about he gave the fivefold, apostles, prophets, evangelists, pastors and teachers.
Glenn Blakeney:And then of course, verse 12 talks about the equipping of the saints for the work of ministry, the building up the body of Christ, etc, continues.
Glenn Blakeney:One of the things that I have seen as obviously throughout the years, and we see this in different, different church streams, have strengths and more, more emphasis on this as a leadership role.
Glenn Blakeney:So in other words, he's restored the five fold so that we have leaders in the church that can prophesy, heal the sick, whatever it may be, plant churches.
Glenn Blakeney:But in reality, that passage isn't so much about leadership, but it's more about the function of the fivefold and what they do.
Glenn Blakeney:Specifically, verse 12, quipping of the saints and seeing every person mobilized as well.
Glenn Blakeney:So.
Glenn Blakeney:So could you just speak into that?
Glenn Blakeney:Like those two different paradigms?
Michael Brodeur:Yeah, no, it's really important for us.
Michael Brodeur:I think one of the biggest mistakes we've made as we approach this passage of Ephesians 4 is one of the biggest mistakes we've made is we've made it all about verse 11.
Michael Brodeur:And it's really not the fact that we've emphasized verse 11 so much.
Michael Brodeur:You know, you might think, oh, an apostle, somebody who carries a microphone on a stage or prophet, somebody who prophesies every day.
Michael Brodeur:But that's really actually not the essence of the passage.
Michael Brodeur:Okay.
Michael Brodeur:And you got to back up a little bit if you want to understand the passage clearly, because it really doesn't begin in verse 11.
Michael Brodeur:It begins in verse 7 where it says, each one of us grace was given according to the measure of Christ's gift.
Michael Brodeur:And so I believe that what he's saying there is.
Michael Brodeur:He's saying he's.
Michael Brodeur:He's now, you know, transitioning towards talking about gifting, but he's saying to each one of us, that means me, that means you.
Michael Brodeur:So yes, there are those who have matured in these five gifts to a level where they can equip the body of Christ most effectively.
Michael Brodeur:But that doesn't mean that these gifts are exclusive to those individuals.
Michael Brodeur:These gifts, I believe, are actually inherent in every single believer at some level or another.
Michael Brodeur:Now, they may manifest one on one ministry, or they may manifest in a small group, or they may manifest in the marketplace or in the classroom teaching on a, you know, an elementary school.
Michael Brodeur:In other words, the different giftings will manifest in different places.
Michael Brodeur:And there will always be those who, through maturity and recognition, have grown to a place of greater influence and a place where they could even be ordained into those gifts.
Michael Brodeur:But I believe, first of all, we need to understand these gifts are for everybody.
Michael Brodeur:Okay?
Michael Brodeur:The second reason I say they're for everybody is because in verse 11, it names these five gifts.
Michael Brodeur:Some people say it's four, but I actually go for five.
Michael Brodeur:And the reason is, is because I've met pastors who are not very good teachers and teachers that are not very good pastors.
Michael Brodeur:So let's just leave it there.
Michael Brodeur:I know that there's some grammatical kind of controversy about that, but.
Michael Brodeur:Okay, but here's the deal.
Michael Brodeur:Is what do they equip?
Michael Brodeur:If they're equipping the saints for the work of the ministry, Is that just so that they can do children's church, or is it so that they can, you know, just win somebody to Christ?
Michael Brodeur:Yeah, but it's much more so.
Michael Brodeur:If I'm apostolic and I'm equipping the saints, I'm going to equip them to be more apostolic.
Michael Brodeur:If I'm pastoral, I'm going to equip the saints to be more caring for one another.
Michael Brodeur:If I'm more of a teacher, I'm going to equip the saints to love the word of God and to actually walk in the principles of the kingdom of God that are embedded in the Word.
Michael Brodeur:In other words, each of these five giftings will equip the church according to the gift that they have.
Michael Brodeur:Now, think about this.
Michael Brodeur:If we're supposed to equip the church in each of these five areas, then that means that every believer has the capacity to be enriched, to be more pastoral.
Michael Brodeur:They have the capacity to be equipped, to be more prophetic.
Michael Brodeur:They each one, every believer has the ability to be more evangelistic.
Michael Brodeur:And I remember one time I was with this one church coaching them.
Michael Brodeur:And the guy said, michael, I did it.
Michael Brodeur:And I said, what did you do?
Michael Brodeur:And he said, well, I finally have my fivefold team.
Michael Brodeur:I said, let's talk about It.
Michael Brodeur:And he said, well, of course I'm the apostle and Sister so and so.
Michael Brodeur:Sister so and so, she's my prophet and brother Joe over there, he's.
Michael Brodeur:He's the evangelist.
Michael Brodeur:I said, whoa, whoa, whoa, slow down.
Michael Brodeur:How do you know that Sister so and so is your prophet?
Michael Brodeur:Yeah, she prophesies every Sunday.
Michael Brodeur:I said, but that's not an Ephesians 4.
Michael Brodeur:11 prophet.
Michael Brodeur:Certainly, if you prophesize that it's prophetic and praise God for that.
Michael Brodeur:But no, the true marker, the distinction of an Ephesians 4.
Michael Brodeur:11 Prophet is not seen in her prophecy.
Michael Brodeur:It's seen in the sons and daughters who are prophesying in her spiritual children and her spiritual grandchildren.
Michael Brodeur:If she's not equipping the saints to prophesy, she's not in the 411 prophet or pastor or apostle.
Michael Brodeur:So we have to see that the true measurement is not so much the operation of the gift itself, but the impartation of that gift to the next generation.
Glenn Blakeney:It 100%.
Glenn Blakeney:Yeah.
Glenn Blakeney:And that's.
Glenn Blakeney:That part about equipping, you know, is really.
Glenn Blakeney:That's the decisive factor in all of this, is that if we stop, as you said, and make it all about Ephesians 4.
Glenn Blakeney:11, and even there's been, in certain cultures I've seen it, church cultures, I'm referring to, where there's this codependency thing as well, where, hey, you need what I carry.
Glenn Blakeney:Even though that's true that, for example, an apostle carries certain grace, obviously, to equip, to help others, but ultimately to the point where it becomes like you have to stay almost perpetually connected to that person who can operate autonomously, as in.
Glenn Blakeney:In a place of maturity, obviously.
Michael Brodeur:Right.
Glenn Blakeney:As you grow, it's not just something really.
Glenn Blakeney:So if we take that a step further and we see, as you've already mentioned, not just the gift of prophecy, for example, and one who's touted as a prophet, but they have the gift of prophecy.
Glenn Blakeney:They're able to prophesy, in other words.
Glenn Blakeney:But the truth is that Ephesians 4 office, that that place is more about equipping sons, daughters, others who are able to prophesy.
Glenn Blakeney:So what would that look like?
Glenn Blakeney:Okay, let's just be a little bit radical here.
Glenn Blakeney:In a good way.
Glenn Blakeney:The word radical comes from the Latin word radix, which means going back to the root.
Glenn Blakeney:Yes.
Glenn Blakeney:So let's go back to the roots a New Testament way.
Glenn Blakeney:Where we see Paul says in a feast.
Glenn Blakeney:I'm sorry, in First Corinthians 40, each one of you can Prophesy he talks about, you know, when you come together, every person has some type of contribution they make with their gifts, etc.
Glenn Blakeney:What would that look like today?
Glenn Blakeney:And I'm not saying a model, but for us to step into that in the modern day church where we don't make it all about Ephesians 4, 11, the fivefold a past, but we actually take it further, which is at least verses 12 through 16 of Ephesians 4.
Glenn Blakeney:Exactly.
Glenn Blakeney:Can you give us an example?
Glenn Blakeney:Are you seeing this in your travels, your connections and other nations?
Glenn Blakeney:Is this happening and if so, what's it look like?
Michael Brodeur:Yeah, I think it is happening, but it's happening in fits and starts.
Michael Brodeur:You know, it's happening at some level.
Michael Brodeur:See, the way we look at it is your ephesians 4 gifting is not necessarily your destiny.
Michael Brodeur:It's a component, it's one of the instruments of your destiny.
Michael Brodeur:It's, it's a, it's, it's an aspect of your, it's, it's one of the tools in your toolbox for your destiny.
Michael Brodeur:And so if you're called to be apostolic, you know, you might be a church planter, you might be a business pioneer, you might actually be a, a movie script writer in, in Hollywood, you know, and coming up with.
Michael Brodeur:But you're using your apostolic gift in a certain area and that secondary issue is destiny.
Michael Brodeur:Okay, what are you called to do on behalf of Jesus that no one else can do in quite the same way?
Michael Brodeur:And one of the reasons you can do that is because you're more oriented towards apostolic or prophetic or pastoral.
Michael Brodeur:Okay.
Michael Brodeur:And that's really where verse 16 gets down to is I, I believe that verse 16 really is the culmination of the entire passage.
Michael Brodeur:And verse 16 says this, that basically as every joint supply.
Michael Brodeur:Let me just read it because it's gonna, yes, I'll mess it up if I just try to quote it.
Michael Brodeur:But it says this.
Michael Brodeur:From whom the whole body joined and knit together by what?
Michael Brodeur:By that which every joint supplies according to the effective working by which every part does its share.
Michael Brodeur:See, again, we're talking about the priesthood of every believer.
Michael Brodeur:We're talking about every single person being mobilized.
Michael Brodeur:Okay?
Michael Brodeur:And when I say every part, you got to say, well, that means me, I have a part to play.
Michael Brodeur:But look what happens when every member is walking in the fullness of their God given destiny or purpose.
Michael Brodeur:This is what, this is the fruit.
Michael Brodeur:It causes the growth of the body, which is quantity and the edifying of itself in love, which is quality.
Michael Brodeur:In other words, the quality and quantity growth of the church depends upon each person maturing in Christ, as it says in verse 14 and 15, but also maturing in your gift mix.
Michael Brodeur:And as you do that, then this issue of assignment comes into play.
Michael Brodeur:Okay?
Michael Brodeur:There's such a thing as agreement in the Lord.
Michael Brodeur:If any man, if we agree two or three touching anything, it shall be done.
Michael Brodeur:There's alignment where we come into right relationship with those leaders that God has placed in our life.
Michael Brodeur:But ultimately when we do that, we can move into our assignment, agreement, alignment, assignment.
Michael Brodeur:And that assignment dynamic is where the body of Christ begins to function.
Michael Brodeur:I mean, think about, I just had a good friend who had a stroke.
Michael Brodeur:Half of her body was shut down.
Michael Brodeur:Gosh, can you imagine that?
Michael Brodeur:But think about the Church of Jesus Christ.
Michael Brodeur:Statistically speaking, 80% of the believers are not functioning in their God given calling.
Glenn Blakeney:Wow.
Michael Brodeur:I mean, that's why when we look at the world around us, you know, we can blame it on the gays or we can blame it on the left wingers or the Marxists or whatever, but really there's only one place to blame and that's the church as we have inherited it is not mobilizing the saints for the glory of Jesus at a level that will produce the outcome that he died to produce.
Michael Brodeur:So we need to repent at a major level and we need.
Michael Brodeur:But back to your question though, I want to get to this real quickly.
Michael Brodeur:Is that when we're coaching pastors and trying to move them from a pastoral model of church to a more apostolic model of church, we don't necessarily feel a need to destroy the Sunday morning gathering, okay?
Michael Brodeur:But what we do is redefine Sunday morning.
Michael Brodeur:Sunday morning is your tribe.
Michael Brodeur:It's your tribal gathering.
Michael Brodeur:That's where you hear from your tribal chief and you sing your tribal songs and you do your tribal dances and your tribal prophet speaks, you know, but you cannot do family in a tribe.
Michael Brodeur:You need to have a place where spiritual mothers and fathers can raise up sons and daughters into full maturity in Christ.
Michael Brodeur:And that doesn't happen very easily on a Sunday morning, okay?
Michael Brodeur:You have to have some small group, some house, church expression, some other vehicle for discover, helping people discover and fulfill their God given purpose.
Michael Brodeur:And the best model for that is family.
Michael Brodeur:Family is the model of the kingdom.
Michael Brodeur:Spiritual mothers and fathers discerning the gift, mix the passions and the dreams of their sons and daughters and then providing a pathway of development so those sons and daughters can grow into the fullness of their God intended purpose.
Glenn Blakeney:Wow.
Glenn Blakeney:That's awesome.
Glenn Blakeney:Yeah.
Glenn Blakeney:Okay.
Glenn Blakeney:So as we obviously continue on this theme, we'll wrap it up here in just a little bit.
Michael Brodeur:Yeah.
Glenn Blakeney:Let's talk about the very practical things, like what have you been doing to help people to really discover and develop and discharge their destiny?
Glenn Blakeney:As you said, it's not just gifts.
Glenn Blakeney:We can identify our gifts, but there's so much more.
Michael Brodeur:Yeah.
Michael Brodeur:So we have a tool that we developed called the journey guide, and we have three levels of that.
Michael Brodeur:One is just a simple free test.
Michael Brodeur:Another one is a sort of an entry level.
Michael Brodeur:Probably takes about a half an hour to do it, and you get some pretty good results.
Michael Brodeur:The full survey will probably take you about two hours.
Michael Brodeur:But I tell you, your destiny is worth it, because what we do is we actually guide you through a series of discoveries.
Michael Brodeur:And one is looking at the fingerprints of God through your history, back to your conception, through your childhood, through the painful and glorious moments of your formation as a person, into your salvation experience, and ultimately your discipleship experience.
Michael Brodeur:So we try to give you a sense of how has God interacted with you.
Michael Brodeur:That's number one.
Michael Brodeur:The next level is we take the Ephesians 4 gifting and help to kind of guide you through a discovery process there.
Michael Brodeur:Okay.
Michael Brodeur:Then we take the Romans 12 gifting, what some people call the motivational gifts, and we help to define those.
Michael Brodeur:So we see those as more that, you know, the ministry gifts of Ephesians 4 are more what you do and the way you do it.
Michael Brodeur:The.
Michael Brodeur:The Romans 12 giftings are a little bit more the style with the personality of your gifting.
Michael Brodeur:And then finally, we look at the First Corinthians 12 gifting, the supernatural power tools that God has given us.
Michael Brodeur:Okay.
Michael Brodeur:And then we see those as foundational, but then we move on to talking about passions like, you know, we talk about the fact that if you could change one thing that's broken in the world, what would it be?
Michael Brodeur:We try to get down to kind of, how has God wired you?
Michael Brodeur:I care about the issue of.
Michael Brodeur:Of.
Michael Brodeur:Of injustice.
Michael Brodeur:I care about the issue of poverty.
Michael Brodeur:I care about the issue of.
Michael Brodeur:Of sex trafficking.
Michael Brodeur:I carry about the issue of pornography and the way it's destroying young men's lives.
Michael Brodeur:Whatever it is that's.
Michael Brodeur:That's in your heart, we want to know that.
Michael Brodeur:And we give you a way of discerning through a series of.
Michael Brodeur:Of questions and word choices what those things are to give you a passion.
Michael Brodeur:Paragraph.
Michael Brodeur:But then we guide you into this understanding of your dreams.
Michael Brodeur:And the scriptural basis for this is a couple of different verses, but one is in.
Michael Brodeur:In Psalm 37, where it says that God will give you that if we delight ourselves in the Lord, he'll give you the desires of your heart.
Michael Brodeur:I believe that he'll not only give you what you're desiring, but he'll actually change your desires to be according to his will.
Michael Brodeur:Okay, Right.
Michael Brodeur:If you don't know quite.
Michael Brodeur:You know, if you're looking for another verse, John 15, you don't have to go too far.
Michael Brodeur:John 15, verse 7.
Michael Brodeur:It says that if you abide in me and my word abides in you, you'll ask whatever you want and it'll be done for you.
Michael Brodeur:You say, well, wait a minute, I want what you want.
Michael Brodeur:God.
Michael Brodeur:No, he didn't say that.
Michael Brodeur:He said, ask what you want.
Michael Brodeur:But the presupposition of that statement is that you've been abiding in him and that his words have been transforming your desire base so that you're dreaming you're desiring the very things that God desires for you.
Michael Brodeur:Third verse that I don't want to go too far from is Philippians, chapter 2, verse 13, where it says, he works within us both to will and to do of his good pleasure.
Michael Brodeur:In other words, he works inside of us to make us want to do it, to give a dream and then to fulfill it.
Michael Brodeur:So when we're doing a dream discovery process, we want to help understand that we have some, call it didactic tools that help to discern whether the thing you say you dream about is really what your dream is.
Michael Brodeur:Because there is such a thing as dream discrepancies and dream disruption and dream projection.
Michael Brodeur:So we want to be careful as we're coaching you through this process.
Michael Brodeur:But if we can discern your gift mix, and they're in line with your passions, and your passions are in line with your history, but also with your destiny, we have a pretty good sense.
Michael Brodeur:We wouldn't call it your actual destiny.
Michael Brodeur:We just say it's your approximate destiny.
Michael Brodeur:But guess what?
Michael Brodeur:It's enough to start moving the car down the road.
Michael Brodeur:You know, you can't.
Michael Brodeur:You can't steer a car.
Michael Brodeur:It's not moving.
Michael Brodeur:Okay.
Michael Brodeur:But if you get it out of gear and you move it forward, you know, you put it forward.
Michael Brodeur:Guess what?
Michael Brodeur:God's able to steer the car.
Glenn Blakeney:Yeah.
Michael Brodeur:So we want to get people moving.
Michael Brodeur:And then we use.
Michael Brodeur:In the local church, we'll use areas of service and areas of mentoring and discipleship to actually produce that.
Michael Brodeur:That movement.
Michael Brodeur:The final thing I'll say, and then I'll shut up.
Glenn Blakeney:No, it's just don't shut up.
Glenn Blakeney:This is amazing.
Michael Brodeur:We believe that the key to good destiny mentoring and coaching is to help people see the destination the best they can.
Michael Brodeur:It may not be exact, but it's going to be enough to get them going.
Michael Brodeur:And then we provide a map, a GPS that helps to guide them on the journey towards their destiny.
Michael Brodeur:So if somebody says, well, my dream is to, you know, start an orphanage in Honduras, say, okay, wow.
Michael Brodeur:Well, probably the first place we'd start is having you do some work in our children's ministry because you may find out you don't like children at all.
Michael Brodeur:But if you do, you know, and we'll work with you there, then we'll probably move you over and have you do some season as helping in one of our small groups, you know, our home groups, so that you learn certain of the soft skills of mobilization and gathering.
Michael Brodeur:Then we're going to move you over here.
Michael Brodeur:But this, you know, next summer we're going to have you, you know, locate a group that you can go down and serve with where you can actually feel it face to face.
Michael Brodeur:But maybe on weekends we'll have you going down to the Spanish speaking area of our, of our city and doing some work with one of these ministries here.
Michael Brodeur:So we're actually working with you to help guide you developmentally towards the outcome.
Michael Brodeur:Now, that outcome may be five years down the road.
Michael Brodeur:I had a guy come to me and say, I believe the Lord's called me to plant a church.
Michael Brodeur:I said, wonderful, we want to help you plant a church.
Michael Brodeur:Okay, but here's where I want you to start, is you're going to serve under this other home group leader until that home group has grown to the point where you can now form a team and launch out another group.
Michael Brodeur:So these are some of the practical things.
Michael Brodeur:Okay, so this guy did it.
Michael Brodeur:I said, great.
Michael Brodeur:Now you're going to grow that group and raise up a couple of other leaders under you, and you're going to actually commission them to start a new group out of your group in the same way that you did.
Michael Brodeur:And once you have three groups, I want you to move into a position of oversight so they move from just being a leader to moving into being a leader of leaders.
Michael Brodeur:And eventually you won't even be leading a group.
Michael Brodeur:You're going to be supervising five home groups, okay?
Michael Brodeur:And then around that time, we'll bring you on staff.
Michael Brodeur:We'll actually familiarize yourself with budgets and, and building issues and some of the nuts and bolts stuff.
Michael Brodeur:And then we'll start to Assemble a team around you and then we'll send you out.
Michael Brodeur:Okay.
Glenn Blakeney:Yeah.
Michael Brodeur:Well, that whole mapping process will take five years.
Glenn Blakeney:Yeah.
Michael Brodeur:But during that five years, guess what?
Michael Brodeur:I'm getting the benefit of their service in my local church.
Michael Brodeur:And in exchange for that service, I'm training them in the many skills that are necessary for church planting.
Michael Brodeur:And then by the time they plant out, they may take 20 people with them.
Michael Brodeur:But it was worth it because we benefited from their service among us.
Michael Brodeur:They benefited from that service as well by being given a boost up, a head start in terms of planting.
Michael Brodeur:So again, this is a way that you work the individual calling with the.
Michael Brodeur:This goes back to the first question you asked Pastor Glenn, which is, you know, you're working the individual calling in relationship to the corporate calling.
Michael Brodeur:Does that make sense?
Glenn Blakeney:100%.
Glenn Blakeney:100%.
Glenn Blakeney:Excellent.
Glenn Blakeney:Yeah, very good.
Glenn Blakeney:So I love that and you know, been part of seeing people sent out who weren't fully equipped, ready, and that's unfortunately that's not a good thing.
Glenn Blakeney:It typically doesn't go well.
Michael Brodeur:That's the danger of sending people half cocked out into a destiny message.
Michael Brodeur:No, of course, you never do that.
Michael Brodeur:You don't give a three year old the keys to the car.
Michael Brodeur:Although my granddaughter did grab the keys to the car when she was 4 years old and went out with my 2 year old, got in the van and literally turned the key on, put it in gear and went, went in a big circle and crashed into our neighbor's house.
Michael Brodeur:But literally that's, that's, that's the teaching of destiny without the mapping of developmental processes.
Glenn Blakeney:Okay, so destiny without developmental processes is disaster.
Michael Brodeur:It can create chaos.
Michael Brodeur:It can create, it can, it can actually feed somebody's orphan spirit their pride problem.
Michael Brodeur:It can actually disrupt the body of Christ terribly if we don't build that.
Michael Brodeur:Let's call it a mutuality.
Michael Brodeur:What would you call it?
Michael Brodeur:A reciprocal benefit relationship between the mentor and the mentee.
Glenn Blakeney:Yeah.
Glenn Blakeney:Great.
Glenn Blakeney:Okay, thank you.
Glenn Blakeney:All right, so the good news is we're just putting a pause on this conversation because next week, same time, Dr.
Glenn Blakeney:Michael will be back with us again to continue on this topic of destiny and developmental process, etc.
Glenn Blakeney:So one of the things we want to mention to you guys is there are some resources available to help you on this journey.
Glenn Blakeney:Head over to destinyfinder.com Kingdom TV, destinyfinder.com KingdomTV and Michael, I'll have you please explain this more.
Glenn Blakeney:But you've got Journey Guide Pro online tool and 15% off use the code that's on the website.
Glenn Blakeney:There.
Glenn Blakeney:And then on top of that, there's a Destiny Finder, small group program, 20% off, etc.
Glenn Blakeney:Can you just tell everybody what's included in this?
Michael Brodeur:Yeah, once you, once you get into the website, you'll see how intricate it is and how much it requires a steady salary going to my web developer because there's so much there.
Michael Brodeur:We have the small group program, which has eight different teachings along these lines.
Michael Brodeur:We have the actual tool itself, which is part of that program, that you can do it in a small group, you can do it individually, you can do it as part of a leadership development program within your church with a senior pastor working with, let's say, some emerging leaders.
Michael Brodeur:But really it's just a powerful way of both getting to know your people and getting to work with them.
Michael Brodeur:Because one of the biggest problems in most churches is that we do a lot of delegation, but we don't do development.
Michael Brodeur:We'll talk about that more next week.
Michael Brodeur:We want to move from a focus on delegation where we're just giving people a broom and telling them, sweep the floor, stack these chairs or teach this Sunday school curriculum.
Michael Brodeur:You know, those are fine things to do.
Michael Brodeur:But unless you're doing development, you're not really helping people into their God given purpose.
Michael Brodeur:So we'll talk about that more next week.
Glenn Blakeney:So.
Glenn Blakeney:Good.
Glenn Blakeney:And yeah, that, that gets me fired up because I see that all the time.
Glenn Blakeney:Oh, here you go guys.
Glenn Blakeney:You know, join, join our team, serve and even part of a Bible school, for example, where all you're, you're doing is you're, you're being delegated responsibilities and you're serving.
Glenn Blakeney:And I'm not saying there isn't any value to that at all.
Glenn Blakeney:Well, yeah, but this whole thing about development is so critical.
Glenn Blakeney:Thank you for sharing.
Michael Brodeur:Well, it's the essence of the Great Commission.
Michael Brodeur:Go and make disciples.
Michael Brodeur:It's not go and give somebody, you know, a curriculum to teach or whatever.
Michael Brodeur:You know, it's like really we're called to raise up sons and daughters into full maturity so we can fulfill that great, that great thing that was given at the, at the beginning of creation.
Michael Brodeur:Be fruitful, multiply, fill the earth, subdue it, have dominion.
Michael Brodeur:That translates into biological growth, but it more importantly translates into spiritual growth.
